The Other Side - Blue Rose 

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Knowing we have, most likely, ruffled some feathers...

 

“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all the people all of the time”

(Poet John Lydgate as made famous by Abraham Lincoln).

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...we would like to put ourselves in the position of the "other side" and image what complaints people may have about us.

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(Online complaints - The REST of the Story!!!  Click!)

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1.  Sometimes they are slow to respond, or they don't respond at all!

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Yes, this true.  Between work schedules, Cavalier Spaniel care, and various family appointments for a large family, we are sometimes slow to respond.  Thus, we try to give a "heads up" by encouraging persistence.  If we don't respond at all, we're very sorry.  That is a big mistake on our part.  :(  We apologize sincerely if this has happened to you.

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2.  They won't provide AKC paperwork until the Cavalier Spaniel we get has been altered.

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This is due to the fraud we've been faced with.  We have nothing against hybrids, per se.  (They are not "mutts" if they have a pedigree.  ...and we have nothing against a lovable mutt, either!)  Our issue is that people breed registered dogs for hybrid puppies using our thoroughly health tested Cavalier Spaniels without permission.  Then they register the puppies with an other-than-AKC-club using the AKC registration numbers from the Cavalier they obtained from us.  This is taboo.

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3.  They breed dogs that are not AKC registered.

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Every single one of our Cavalier Spaniels is AKC registered or are eligible to be AND will be AKC registered by the time you get your Cavalier Spaniel altered.  Also, see answer #1.  :-P  Thus, if you get a puppy who has a parent that is registered with FCI and not with AKC yet, please rest assured that this parent can and will be AKC registered by the time your baby is 6 months old.  

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For example, our foreign-born dogs that are AKC registered, so far:

Sapphire

Chanel

Primrose

Zoltan

Brianne

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You can check the OFA webpages of these Cavalier Spaniels and see that they have both an AKC number and a foreign number.  Of course, we have zero control over what's on the OFA website so this is legitimate proof.

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4.  They are sometimes slow with the paperwork

 

Yes, we are, unhappily, slow with paperwork at times.  :(  We're not slow to torture you, honest!  Please see answer #1.  :-P  However, please remember that being occasionally slow is different that not getting the job done!

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5.  They act like airheads!

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That's another yes, sometimes we feel like airheads!  Working with your family has it's advantages.  ...AND it's disadvantages, like assuming that, since we're family, we're always on the same page.  Sadly, this is not always the case.  Also, the more inquiries we have at one time the more we seem scatter-brained!  Please accept my biggest, heartfelt apologies.

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On second thought, I would like to elaborate:  

 

My health could be better.  I have a condition that causes "flares" of worse-than-usual pain.  When I do try to communicate during these times I end up regretting it.  I get names mixed up - Dora instead of Darla, Charity instead of Cherish.  I don't remember everything during these times, either.  I am blessed, though, since these flares do let up within a few days.

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John works full time.  His focus is divided, unavoidably.  Just wait until he retires in '21!

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Our default - something we do without even thinking much about it - is to follow our principals to the best of our human ability.  We know we have Someone to answer to!

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6.  Our latest complaint:  They don't follow the CKCSC Club's breeding guidelines.

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This is a highly deceptive statement.  There is a huge difference between "guidelines" and rules!  The truth is, if we were members of the respected CKCSC-USA, we would have broken or violated ZERO ethics/rules.  Period!  Besides, guidelines are not etched in stone for a good reason which every breeder is aware of:  Varying circumstances.

 

The recent, rude exchange was an attack, made by a pet owner who called herself an advocate for CKCSC, over breeding a girl who was 18 months old rather than waiting until she turned 2 per CKCSC's "guidelines."  This girl I bred has health-cleared parents and grandparents! I had no hesitation when breeding her after she had her own health clearances plus exhibited proper soundness and maturity.

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Additionally, this lady would automatically fill in the blanks on details that I may have not explained thoroughly.  Rather than asking for clarification, which is the best way to communicate, she automatically assumed and inserted the worst-case scenario so she could tell me how absurd I was!  This makes evident her goal was to find fault, not communicate.

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Also, on occasion, we take a female to a GP rather than a certified cardiologist.  My response to her claims of our health clearances being inadequate: 

 

"We always take our Cavaliers to certified cardiologists.  Once in a blue moon, due to the girls' cycles, we take them to a GP for the time being, but not very often.  We do not breed them before they have been checked by a cardiologist.  Were you even aware that you're not supposed to get heart clearances when a girl is in heat, pregnant, or nursing?  For a check-up that needs to be done every single year, this can limit the time when a dam is clear to have her heart listened to.  When we have girls who miss their clinic due to these issues, we take them to a GP as soon as they wean their puppies then pick back up with a cardiologist at the next clinic.  That makes us irresponsible?"

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Personally, I believe this lady simply wants everyone to purchase a puppy from a CKCSC breeder so she puts a deceptive spin on details using half-truths.  I repeat that she is not a breeder herself but still considers herself an authority.  I do not, in any way, shape, or form, hold the CKCSC breeders responsible.  I'll be the first to proclaim they are respected and, in general, they have earned that respect. 

 

Noteworthy:

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Anne & Justin H said: "Hi, John!  Wanted to check in and let you know that "Heath" had a great check up at the vet today.  He is such a love!!  Thanks again for everything."

 

A week later they claimed:  Our puppy is extremely small and due to his size it could pose future health problems, per our vet.  Then they demanded money from us because, so they claimed, some problem might occur in the future.

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Us:  We would like your vet to fax the puppy's records to our vet.  (We're concerned that the puppy may be stressed and not eating properly.)

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Them:  What do you need those for?! (Naturally, we have to doubt their honesty for refusing to share vet records after demanding money from us.)

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If you feel you have a health problem with your Cavalier, our hands are tied without full medical records.  If you breach the contract, again, our hands are tied.  Either of these situations could easily cause complaints to fly - all based on partial truths, which are partial lies.

 

NOTE:  If you have your puppy for SEVERAL DAYS, and the puppy has a good 72-hour check-up, then s/he picks up a virus, this is NOT something that we did wrong.  Still, some people believe that if their puppy gets a cough several days after delivery, that means we gave them a sick puppy.  Our babies ALL see a vet very shortly before leaving us.  Anyway... we are now keeping our babies for 12 weeks, rather than allowing them to leave us at 9 weeks.   This is fine.  We don't mind keeping our babies a bit longer!   (CIRDC generally incubates in 2 to 3 days.  We have tried to get any "unsatisfactory" puppy back - either temporarily for medical care at our expense, or with a full refund to the buyer.  Some people prefer to complain. See below.)  

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From another breeder's viewpoint - AND THEIR ASSOCIATES - I would guess they might want to find something about us to cast doubt on our legitimacy and commitment, not to mention our love for our fur family.  Sadly, this 2% of unscrupulous breeders and their associates can wreak far too much havoc for the rest of the breeders who are being as ethical as possible.  Why would a small percentage of breeders want to cause problems for us?  We can only guess.  Jealousy?  Money?  Thankfully, most breeders are honest, but there are unsavory people in every group you can imagine.

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We sincerely ask that if you hear something negative, kindly check with us and hear the story straight from the proverbial horse's mouth - the whole story - please and thank you!

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So, that's all we have for now.  We're praying it gets better!  :-)

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Update:

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OFA PROOF

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Start by viewing our "Kennel Cough" page to see how quickly Canine Infectious Respiratory Disease Complex can incubate.

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BOTTOM LINE:  We will be completely responsible for our OWN medical choices and those of OUR vet's.  (Our vet is more than willing to work very, very closely with anyone's vet for the health of ANY of our Cavaliers.)  We will not accept responsibility for the medical choices of others since Cavaliers have very specific needs.  (Would you?)  If this makes us a "puppy mill" or "bad breeders" that's new news to me.  

LISTEN TO YOUR BREEDER!

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THESE THREE COMPLAINTS ARE POSTED ON THE SAME BOGUS WEBSITE!!!!

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LATEST:  This Jessica C. did not mention the FRESH health certificate the puppy came with.  This puppy was healthy when she picked him up.  When he did become ill, she refused to follow our vet's recommendations, REGARDLESS of the fact that our vet QUITE LITERALLY knows our Cavaliers inside and out. 

 

After we learned the owner refused our vet's recommendations, it was SEVEN (7) MONTHS before we heard from her again.  Then she called to make all kinds of profane threats, such as stating she was going to "ruin us." 

NOTE:  THIS POOR PUP WAS LOST TO ANESTHESIA!!!! 

SOME VETS DO NOT KNOW CAVALIERS.

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We will take ANY of our babies back at ANY time if they become ill and get them well at our own expense!!!

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Puppy mill?!  We have FIVE adults and THREE homes that we work out of.  We NEVER, EVER use cages!!!  Our vet has been to our home and can verify this!!!

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Additionally, after 20 years of breeding along with some showing, we have very, very few complaints, and they're on only one, bogus website where ANYONE can say ANYTHING they want to say about someone else!  NO EVIDENCE REQUIRED!

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On the only ONE particular, VERY BOGUS website where these complaints are, where absolutely zero proof of claims is required, these individuals get together to do their worst, all because they decided they knew our Cavaliers better than we and our vet knows them.  MONTHS - EVERN YEARS LATER, they want us to be responsible for their wrong choices.  They REFUSE to accept ANY personal responsibility for the way they cared for their puppy

during the months that they had them!  ALL VETS ARE NOT CREATED EQUAL!

 

Dawn L's puppy was fine for 4.5 days.  Then she got a bit of a cough.  She was eventually lost to anesthesia which was administered for a  completely unnecessary procedure which Dawn knew we adamantly opposed. 

We delivered a very healthy little puppy to Dawn L. at the Denver airport.  We had already had a taste of Dawn's controlling, deceptive nature well before we delivered 'Zina.  Very early in our business relationship, before we could have done anything to offend her, Dawn called to let us know she had made non-refundable airline reservations to meet us at the Denver Airport – without giving us forewarning or making sure we had a definite date.  We had no idea she could change her nonrefundable reservation without losing money since we haven’t been on a flight in a very, very long time, and she did not inform us she could change the date.  So, she pressured us to let the baby go sooner than we wanted by insinuating she would lose the money on her flight costs if she changed anything.  (Never again!)

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Her vet verified that the puppy was healthy at the 72-hour

check-up.  Dawn wrote, "Hazina was so tuckered out she

fell asleep with her toy in her mouth! :-)  We took her to

the vet.  They were very impressed!"

 

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This glowing report turned into, "You sold us a sick puppy!"  36 hours after the vet visit, approximately, the puppy developed a slight cough.  This was 4.5 days after we met Dawn at the Denver Airport with this baby and entrusted our baby to her.

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Dawn immediately started making hostile threats against us as soon the puppy started coughing.  Her threats involved putting her deceptive information all over the internet.  (Now we have reason to believe she is coaching others to do likewise.)  I was curious why she chose this type of a threat.  I soon found out, which I will explain.

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She made false claims that we sold her an ill puppy when both our vet and her vet confirmed the puppy was healthy.  She talked as though the puppy was riddled with parasites, however, because ten days had expired before finding any parasites, they could have been picked up anywhere.  However, parasites do happen on occasion. 

 

We DID offer to cover half of the vet bills which she made a point to deny, blatantly lying about this fact.  She would have gotten the money if she had simply signed a release form, but she had plans of a smear campaign against us.  Thus, signing a release form was not in her program for us.

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As soon as we offered to cover half of the vet bills, Dawn had an urgent request for her vet.  Dawn, personally, initiated what the vets called “the next step” in treatment.  Yet, she never mentioned to us her plans to do a procedure that was way, way overboard for a young little puppy.  We had already expressed to her that we did not approve of anything extreme before trying home nebulizer treatments rather than paying $76 per treatment at the vet clinic!  This extreme procedure Dawn arranged for offered zero guarantees with a 50/50 chance of finding an answer.  We told Dawn it was probably a virus that was causing Zina’s cough.  Guess what?!  It was a virus.

 

The type of cough Zina had is called Canine Infectious Respiratory Disease Complex (CIRDC). The incubation is usually 2 to 3 days.  We cover the entire 3 days with our health warranty.

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The incubation period for most CIRDC pathogens is typically 2-3 days per the University of Wisconsin Shelter Medicine.

https://www.uwsheltermedicine.com/library/resources/canine-infectious-respiratory-disease-complex-a-k-a-kennel-cough#Handout

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The procedure Dawn had done without our knowledge – behind our backs - killed this little baby of ours.  Cavaliers are highly sensitive to anesthesia, which is what killed the baby, and we highly doubt this vet was that familiar with the breed. We were virtually hit by a truck when she called to say Zina had died.  We had no idea any procedure was being done on our Zina.  We felt totally betrayed.  Then Dawn decided we needed to be responsible for her secret decision to have an unnecessary procedure done which resulted in Zina’s loss!

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It was about this time that I learned why Dawn was so keen on internet complaints.  She broke the law in a very serious manner which is how she presumably learned of the damage the internet can do. 

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I do have solid evidence that what I'm saying is true.  I have chosen to remove this info and trust the Good Lord to judge her heart.  Certainly, I am not capable!

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So ends my experiences with Dawn L. – hopefully!  Honestly, she has the capacity to do much good, if she so chooses.  (Years later, Dawn recently decided to put fresh complaints on the same, bogus website.)

 

We feel there were other, less invasive ways to test.  (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wALn4tlUNk&feature=youtu.be)  Veterinarians have busine$$e$ for profit!

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It was proven this puppy picked up a virus.  The condition is called Canine Infectious Respiratory Disease Complex (CIRDC).  Incubation is 2 to 4 days. 

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Brand new puppies are always vulnerable when they change homes.  This goes for any puppy.  This does not mean the puppy was delivered in an unhealthy condition.

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Debbie H. waited 21 weeks after receiving the puppy to say anything at all to us.  We responded via certified mail, offering to help - no questions asked.  She wanted a full refund so $$ was the only thing that would make her happy.  Then, without contacting us regarding our offer, Debbie proceeded to file 11 repeated complaints, (including re-posting Dawn L.'s complaint several times) and counting, over this one transaction, never mind we never knew there was a problem.  We were not afforded so much as 1 week to reply to her before she publicly complained, after we were kept in the dark for around 5 months.  Furthermore, she continues to file new complaints to make them appear recent.  She's up to 11 complaints at last count.

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We have veterinary proof this baby - and EVERY baby - was/is healthy at the time of delivery to the best of anyone's knowledge. 

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Brand new puppies are always vulnerable when they change homes.  This goes for any puppy.  This does not mean the puppy was delivered in an unhealthy condition.

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Letting us care for a puppy that is stated to be ill shortly after arriving at their new home is written into the contract.  It's a requirement.   Still, even though this person breached the contract, we have extended the offer and expressed our desire, in writing via certified mail, to take the puppy back and get him completely well at our own expense.  All we want is to know that baby is well and we will do everything we can to assure that he is.  We would have done so from the beginning, before she acquired vet bills, if she had contacted us, but

she made the choice not to contact us.  Rather, she complained repeatedly.

 

This owner demonstrated her refusal to follow instructions by not so much as contacting us for five-ish months.  How can we know she followed veterinary instructions?  We can't.

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This owner demonstrated she is unreasonable by publicly complaining about us, as though we did something wrong, when we were totally uninformed.

 

There is so very much that can happen in 21 weeks.  There is no excuse for her to have waited so excessively long before telling us what was going on.   

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Nevertheless, we want the puppy back so we can get him well.  Then he can go back to this family.  If the complainer had followed instructions, this would

have been accomplished months ago.

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We do have this baby's litter mate (Nanette) and she is glowingly healthy. 

She did not get sick.  No complaints from the families of other siblings.

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BTW - we have never been kicked out of anywhere!  That's preposterous gossip!!!  I challenge ANYONE who makes such false claims to offer ANY proof!!!

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Choosing a vet is like choosing a church.  There are thousands of interpretations of the Bible.

Likewise, medicine has many, many different interpretations. Part of what this owner failed to understand is that, since we are being held responsible, it needs to be our decisions and our choices that we are responsible for.  This puts all of the responsibility and expense on us.   

This is fair and just. Our vet knows our dogs.  We love our babies more than any vet could.  The best thing for our babies is to come back home if they're ill.

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We are puzzled and grieved as to why a few people feel they can take advantage of us.  Genetically sound babies still get the routine illnesses that are common among the youngsters.  Do they expect perfection?  The only perfect human

is Jesus Christ and he was crucified!

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The latest - after several years, two people got back on the same BOGUS website to complain.  Like sharks, other people who DID NOT get their puppies from us, got on the same site and complained, knowing full well it gave the appearance that they got their pup from us!  ANYONE can say ANYTHING on this website I'm referring to.

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Is your puppy susceptible to CF?   https://www.dogflu.com/pet-owner-risk-quiz